Points DOA
In various places for random reasons recently, I found myself thinking of bad arguments. Not "arguments" in the sense of a fight, but in the sense of a debate, and "bad" in the Rhetoric 101 sense. There's several phrases that I can't stand; phrases that are such bad arguments that the person whose mouth or fingertips they come from is giving up, resorting to the debate equivalent of name-calling because they have nothing better.
These are the words that stick in my craw (wherever my craw is):
1. Don't you have anything better to do?
I read this one recently in a blog post about DC cops giving out tickets to people not wearing seatbelts or jaywalking, and I thought, "Don't they have anything better to do than enforce the law? Which is, by the way, their jobs?" Instead of going with the actual argument at hand (whether or not jaywalking or not wearing setbelts should be ticketable offenses), they had to try and make it out like the cops were being lazy, ignoring the multiple murders around them while they focused their enforcement on tiny offenses. Not the case, people.
Besides the specifics, it's a lazy phrase. It has no bite as an argument because it doesn't matter whether or not they have anything better to do. Focus on the actual topic and not whether or not it's a good use of time or not.
2. Wow, you've really thought a lot about this, haven't you?
Not surpringly, I get this one a lot. In some ways, it's kind of nice to hear, because it translates in my head as, "I don't have any other points on the subject, so you win." But, again, it's basically name-calling, trying to make the other person feel as though they're some sort of over-analytical freak, when really all that's happened is that the discussion has a clear winner.
3. I was just joking. Lighten up.
This one makes me so crazy that I can't guarantee it won't drive me to kill one day. It's one of the most cowardly things in the world: handing out an opinion as a joke (which is absolutely fine), but to then back away from a clear opinion by making out the person taking the bait of the argument to be uptight and overly argumentative is so wrong. There's a lot of people who use jokes as a way to make opinions that they don't have to defend. And while I'm all in favor of making jokes about politics or even controversial issues, don't say something that you're not prepared to defend.
Your counterpoint?
11 comments:
Reid, thanks for the post you overthinking blogatonian. DOnt you have anything better to do? and lighten up, im only joking. oh that was too easy.
couple of my hated phrases:
1. you've just figured that out?
2. DUH.
3. And your point is????
PK, those are all PERFECT additions to the list. I especially hate/love "And your point is?", which is like saying, "I'm so dumb, you're going to have to repeat that."
Paul, that's quality stuff right there. Why did you have to kill your blog? WHY?!!
I find "I'm just sayin' is all" to be one of the most useful phrases in any language and I use it all the time. A favorite of Weston's that also lets you spout whatever opinion you want with impunity: "I don't mean that in a bad way." As in, "You're a rotten piece of shit and your mother is a crack whore. And I don't mean that in a bad way."
A hated phrase of mine, used frequently in thoughtless marketing: "What are you waiting for?" As if a light is supposed to go on in your head and you think, "Yeah, what am I waiting for?? I'm gonna order that do-it-yourself lobotomy kit right now!"
Whatever. When you think about it, who really cares?
Hey, I think that "just joking, lighten up" is useful. It's not that I am actually joking, it's that I have offended you and I am trying to back pedal. Granted, it's not as eligant as saying "I'm sorry, I am such a stupid moron and my opinion is at best implausible, at worst offensive." It is at least better then flicking you in the eye. :)
I haven't seen Reid in a while, but I remember him throwing out the "And your point is???" on occasion. I am pretty certain now that it's because I didn't actually have a point.
P.S. I purposely put that smiley, because I am certain you hate those.
Robert! Good to have you around. It has been awhile, long enough so that you're getting me confused with someone who hates smilies. I don't mind them. They can get you out of a jam. I can't tell you how many times I've thought, "What the hell is THAT supposed to mean?" only to see a little emoticon and feel relieved.
There is, though, a big difference between saying "only joking" because you offended someone and because your got caught with a dumb argument. Hey, I love a good offensive joke every now and then and I've certainly chosen my friends based on that. But whether you're making an offensive joke or making a political statement couched as a joke, it still stands: be prepared to defend it. You can say that you were only joking, but don't say anything that you can't take the heat for.
It's one of the things I admire Sarah Silverman for. I'm not a huge fan of her humor, but I love that she never apologizes for it or never gets bothered that people are offended by it. She's trying to offend people, so why should she get bothered when she succeeds? Can't say the same for those South Park idiots.
But it's with the political stuff that it bothers me, because it's not at all that the person saying it was "just joking". It's that they wanted to make some nasty comment about a politician or movement or something, but don't want to have to come up with the arguments that defend it.
Anyway, that's a full post in an of itself...
what happened with the South Park people?
Nothing happened. They just seem to be very easily offended for a couple of guys who are setting out to offend people.
oh yeah, I forgot about the whole thing with scientology and issac hayes and all that.
pussy's
if it weren't for south park though, we wouldn't EVEN be having this discussion.
My favorite all time is, "I dunno, dude." Its like I can disagree and even start down the road to calling someone a moron, without actually having to do it. It even comes across as non-confrontational, even though in my head I'm thinking something else entirely.
That's a good one. It's a cooler way of saying, "Let's agree to disagree". It always seems really lame to end a good debate with that, but every now and then you have to accept that you're never going to see eye-to-eye.
In that situation, I usually just say, "Screw you then!" and if I have a drink, I throw it at 'em.
Also, I seem to get in a lot of fights.
Another convenient one, that is sorta like "I'm just sayin' is all" but a little more sophisticated is:
"I'm not saying that I believe this, but here's point A"
You present the side of the argument you really do believe in, but in such a way that nobody has any idea where you stand on an issue. It's great.
You can even follow it up with an exploration of point B, an completely confuse everyone.
confusion: the best way to end an argument quickly and move on to drinkin'.
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